Friday, August 04, 2006

After all we've Done

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Hundreds of thousands of Shiites chanting "Death to Israel" and "Death to America"

Jordan's King Says Arab Moderates Change

"The Arab people see Hezbollah as a hero because it's fighting Israel's aggression," he said. "This is a fact that the U.S. and Israel must realize: As long as there is aggression, there's resistance and there's popular support for this resistance."


Analysis- Mission Accomplished.

32 Comments:

Blogger Lucy Stern said...

Yes, it really looks bad and things are getting out of control fast. Another Pandora's box wide open and not a soul knows how to get the snakes back in......What a shame.

12:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lucy you are so right. Why do you think Bush lets these boxes be opened when everyone knows you don't open Pandora box?

Mismanagement has brought us to the brink of a battle civilizations. It did NOT have to be this way.

Those that sit back and say "there was no other way" are the same people that thought Saddam was a threat to the U.S. , that thought a small number of religious radicals could threaten the power of the U.S. on the same level of the Soviet Union. Some perspective people.
The goat herders got a lucky shot because our leaders were asleep at the switch (on vacation).


50% of the country today believes Saddam had WMD. Either the administration is actively trying to keep that perception alive or the American people are really that stupid.

The first is fixable there is no hope if it is the latter.

DBC

1:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is what to expect from the Republicans.

91-page Republican playbook for 'homestretch' campaigning

1:51 PM  
Blogger P said...

Those were Al Sadr's men. He organized the protest. The same guy who murdered another Mullah because he didn't like him. Another insane asylum escapee from Islam. No wonder most of them are whacked, Mohammed condoned child rape and incest. Half of them are probably inbred.

4:26 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

Re: the 91-page Republican playbook for the homestretch.

John Q is not going to buy it. John Q just barely bought it in '04. In many respects, that was an era ago. Jeez, does one have to list the changes in the political calculus...

The first 3 are Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, followed in no particular order by Brownie, you are doin' a heckuva a job, Jack Abramoff and his merry band of grifters and grafters, the ugly faces of Christian wingerism as personified by Randall "I'll bull my way into your personal family affairs" Terry, James "you owe me big time" Dobson, and Ralph "Jack my man,hump me those contracts" Reed, $60 a fill-up donations to Exxon Mobile and last but not least, Iraq...

4:41 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

P, it quite clear that you have given up on wanting be taken seriously when you comment here.

I am not at all clear as to why you have struck such a course and I am not going engage in gratuitous speculation.

Rest assured, you are not alone in turning more to shrill inane winger wankery. The former coverer of Aaron's back posted an egregious slur of families of fallen troops in Iraq over at Sharky's place within the last 24 hours. There other examples but why waste perfectly good electrons.

If you think you are somehow bolstering the causes you feel strongly about, you couldn't be more off the mark.

Gravatas coming from the right exists and has a respected place in the public forum...

Gutter diatribes are simply that, gutter diatribes...

5:05 PM  
Blogger P said...

Sorry Prodigal! What about my post was incorrect???

5:11 PM  
Blogger P said...

And yes, I feel strongly about Israel. Who should I feel strongly about and voice support for? The terrorists who target innocent Israeli teenagers at nightclubs and leave their body parts lying in pools of their own blood? Or the ones who fly airplanes into American buildings so the people inside can jump 80 stories to their death so they aren't burned alive?

You're not of German descent are you PS?

5:18 PM  
Blogger LNaranjoiv said...

It always amazes me to see the fruity left make the war analogies, when they don't have a clue about war itself.

Humorous.

I imagine, we'll all have world peace, when the radical arabs love their children more then they hate the jews/americans.

Nah....that be tooo easy. It's better to see your own kids blown up for a photo op against those ISRAELIS!

Yea right....pffffffft....

6:37 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

Sorry Prodigal! What about my post was incorrect???

The gutter diatribe part of your post. It certainly would embarass our friends who very much support Israel and it's right to exist. My wife had lunch today with her long time friend of Jewish ethnicity. I am sure she would think that you are not very helpful in articulating what she fervently cares about.

Just imagine yourself at a dinner party and you expressed yourself as you did in your initial comment on this thread. Of course you wouldn't express yourself in such a manner as you did earlier this afternoon. You have enough social presence not to do that. But here in the relative anonymity of the blogosphere, you feel free to do so...

That is gross wankery and does not advance you cause...

It's your choice as to whether you want to be taken seriously in a public forum or not...

6:41 PM  
Blogger P said...

Gutter diatribe as being pedophilia?

Let's look at the Koran...
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41023

Oh, I almost forgot, people have dinner with me too but never say "I had dinner with a Jew..." even after they find out that I am one.

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

P- Yes that Al Sadr. The one we were going to arrest or kill. Now he is part of the Iraqi government and operating death squads and what do we do about it??? Nothing because he has to much pull(just another mistake). Contrary to some reports there was more than a hundred thousand people marching it was the largest Shi'ite gathering in one place ever. Not a good sign.

We don't stop him or his death squads so we let him do as he pleases why? because he is stronger now than when we gave in to him in 2005.

2004--How has Muqtada al-Sadr gotten so much attention? Believed to be about 30 years old, al-Sadr is the son of a grand ayatollah but U.S. officials think his support is relatively small, and concentrated among the young and poor.

From Global Security
Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) spokesman Dan Senor publicly revealed 05 April 2004 that an Iraqi judge has issued an arrest warrant for Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr in connection with the 10 April 2003 murder of Shi'ite Grand Ayatollah Abd al-Majid al-Khoi at a mosque in Najaf. Senor also announced that Iraqi police had arrested Mustafa al-Yacoubi in connection with the same murder of Ayatollah Abdul Majid al-Khoei and one of his aides.

Al-Sadr vowed on 09 August to fight what he called the "occupation of Al-Najaf" until the "last drop of blood" is spilled. In late August 2005, however, Muqtada al-Sadr called for a nationwide cease-fire and announced that he would join the political process in the following days. The announcement followed discussions between al-Sadr and the Iraqi government as well as coalition officials.


DBC

7:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

P- To say your link is biased is a gross understatement.
There are many sites that pick the Bible apart in the same way and interpret to offend so really.

I agree that PS went a little far. Have lunch with a Jew?
Some of my best friends are ________.
But

This is a blog and open to debate and any view point should be welcome whether we agree or not. P is wrong but has every right to say it.

Otherwise how can I correct him:)
(tongue firmly in cheek)


PSThe former coverer of Aaron's back posted an egregious slur of families of fallen troops in Iraq over at Sharky's place within the last 24 hours

Did I miss something?
DBC

7:49 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

DBC

I have friends of many kinds of background and ethnicity. And I weave that into the narrative of a comment when it seems pivotal to the point I am making. I have commented that I have friends who are wingers at ate up with Limbaugh. I have commented that I have friends who share my Christian spiritual journey.

I recently commented that my good friend and best friend at my wedding 5 years ago was of Filipino birth and rearing because it was essentially to the point I was making.

I commented recently that a good friend in the neighborhood is a lesbian , again because it was essential to the point I was making.

I sometimes make note that I was a Hoosier most of my adult life sometimes to provide context to a point I am making.

And so it was with my comment about my wife having lunch today with her long time friend of Jewish heritage who is an ardent supporter of Israel's right to exist.

I repeat the point that I was making. She would not find the gutter diatribe...

No wonder most of them are whacked, Mohammed condoned child rape and incest. Half of them are probably inbred.

very supportive of her strong support of Israel's right to exist. She would have recoiled from the crudeness of that part of P's comment. To not have named her ethnicity would have nullified the point I was making.

as to your question about what you might have missed...

It is over at Sharky's place on the Max Baucus post.

9:15 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

I am very much aware that my style of commenting is a bit different than most who comment here. We are all commenting on issues that very much affect real people's lives. And we do that in different ways.

This escalating war between Hezbollah and Israel is very alarming to virtually everyone I know. How could it not be? For all the various posturing, no one has a very good idea how this is going to play out. And as with real people that I talk with, the TV talking heads show a great deal of uncertainty and worry too.

We can all use all the rhetorical body English to try to make this conflict turn out the way our individual hearts want it to. We can displace our aungst with jibes at each other here, but in the end, we are all in the same boat...

Let's not make it The Ship of Fools...

10:32 PM  
Blogger P said...

The escalation is alarming? Lol. Gel yo. This is nothing. Lol. Best fun I've had in years but it's still nothing more than a Vaudeville act compared to what Could happen. I personally would love it if it got 1000 times worse. ;) But that's just me. ;) :D

11:33 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

P, you might want to hit the delete comment icon. Your comment immediately above seems to indicate that you were in an altered state when you made it. After you remove your comment, I will remove this and we'll just move on as if I just dreamed it had been here...

10:59 AM  
Blogger P said...

Actually PS, I was in a minimally altered state. I still agree with it this morning, and I'm drinking Gatorade.

11:38 AM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

In all times and all places, in the end humanity prevails. This Open Letter of Israeli Mental Health Workers

To: Israeli governement

We, Jews and Palestinians in Israel who work in the fields of mental health, social science, education and therapy want to express our support for all victims of this war – in Lebanon, Palestine, and Israel.

We are concerned about the massive damage done to innocent citizens and about collective punishments perpetrated on civilian populations. We are concerned about the ongoing war and its repercussions for the individual as well as the collective psyche in the region. We urge leaders and populations alike to put an immediate end to the bloodshed and destruction, to join in a discussion and start the dialogue, communication and understanding that will make a peace agreement possible.

The peoples of this region have experienced much trauma and suffering. Each side considers itself the innocent and blameless victim while conceiving of the other side as the absolutely evil aggressor. Educational programs and the media on both sides do everything to entrench this view of things by de-humanizing and demonizing the other and by talking about "them" as though they were mere, senseless objects. This type of discourse propagates and constantly reaffirms a notion of war for the sake of security. But such a discourse blunts our ability to feel for human suffering and in doing so it closes the possibilities for mutual understanding and other processes that might lead to peace.

Psychological scars multiply, grow indelible and irrevocable as the violence continues. In the short term, a large population of adults and children suffers from different degrees of trauma. In the longer term, a post-traumatic culture emerges for which violence is the self-evident way to solve a problem.

Professional experience teaches us that people who have been exposed to ongoing trauma tend to unconsciously reproduce the traumatic conditions. It is common for victims of trauma to have a weak sense of stability and trust in the other, to suffer from chronic anxiety, despair and hopelessness to the extent of depression and suicidal tendencies. Identification with the aggressor may sometimes lead the victim to become violent him or herself – whether it is in their parental capacity, or as a spouse, or simply as just another citizen. What develops is a trans-generational process by which the trauma is passed on, re-experienced and reinstated. The result is a vicious circle of violence and victimization, retribution and destruction.

We are concerned about what is happening to Israeli society: The processes to which it is exposed blunt our responsiveness to human suffering, makes us intolerant and curbs our empathy toward the other. We are concerned about the downward moral slope on which our society seems to be moving, and about its brutalization. We are concerned about the central place brute force has come to gain as a solution to problems – whether they occur in our schools, among young people, on the roads, in the family, or toward the minorities in our midst.

Our working experience has taught us that in order to escape vicious circles, in general, and violent ones in particular, we must intervene, however arbitrarily, and set aside the quarrels about who started, who is right, and who has received the greatest injury. Such intervention makes it possible to start processes of rehabilitation on each side of the conflict. To make this happen, a third party is necessary who comes from outside, beyond the viewpoints of each of the parties, and is thus in the position to negotiate and bridge.

The time has come for us to stop being hostages to our own trauma, our past, our education and our media. The time has come for us to stop regarding ourselves as eternal victims who always have justice on their side. The time has come for us to recognize our own power and take responsibility for the destruction and suffering we are inflicting on our fellow human beings. The time has come to show courage by stopping the cycles of trauma, destruction, humiliation and retribution. The time has come to open circles of compensation and healing – a process which demands compromise and concessions, but it is the only one that stands a chance if we want to look after our loved ones, our own souls, and our moral integrity.

We believe that if Israel aspires to be a civilized state, it can not let itself be carried away by provocations or power-drunk fantasies. We ask Israel's government to put an end to the spiraling bloodshed and instead opt for the path of recognition and of communication with the other. We call for the immediate start of negotiations – without crippling conditions, and with the assistance of any external agent who is prepared to help in this process.

7:54 PM  
Blogger P said...

Funny thing. A friend and I just crashed an anti-Israel protest in downtown Sacramento. We bought two Iranian flags, one to burn at the protest, and, my protest sign said "Nuke Iran." I walked into the middle section were the Muslims were, and, guess what, it got quasi-violent. One guy threatened to kill me as he pushed me back from the sidewalk. We have it all on video, audio, and digital camera stills. These mother f*ckers are COMPLETELY insane. They told me Israel targets kids in their bombings on purpose. When the one guy said he would "kill me," I yelled, "Oh! The religion of peace! Yeah, good job on showing that's what you guys are all about." They shut up for a second, but, then continued in their lunacy. I was surrounded, harrassed, intimidated Physically, and threatened with death, just because I was exercising my free speech rights. Man, love these terrorist supporters.

10:18 PM  
Blogger Russ said...

HAHAAHAHAHAHAAA

Oh man P you make me laugh.

Your lack of perspective is funny.

You brought a flag to burn (where have I seen that before?) and went to cause trouble and then you are surprised when you find it.

Good one.

10:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Israeli pilots 'deliberately miss' targets

Fliers admit aborting raids on civilian targets as concern grows over the reliability of intelligence

At least two Israeli fighter pilots have deliberately missed civilian targets in Lebanon as disquiet grows in the military about flawed intelligence, The Observer has learnt. Sources say the pilots were worried that targets had been wrongly identified as Hizbollah facilities.

10:19 AM  
Blogger P said...

Russ, we fully expected trouble, but, not insanity, at least at the level that was shown. We proved our point, and had one HELL of a good time doing it too, lol. You should have heard the people driving by cheering us on when they saw our sign, lol. Beautiful. Our next signs: "Muhammed was not a prophet," and, "The Quran is a Lie." We'll see how they like that, lol.

10:36 AM  
Blogger PB said...

p--you are part of the problem, and by antagonism, are not part of the solution.

So gung ho, why not go join the Israeli army?

9:43 AM  
Blogger P said...

PB. My sole reason for going wasn't to antagonize. It was to observe what happened. From what I saw, the people there believed the opposite of what is true. They said Hamas is not a terrorist organization and the same for Hezbollah. They said Israel was a terrorist state which purposefully targeted children for bombings. And, to be threatened by adherents of the "Religion of Peace" was completely hypocritical. From the Muslims to the "whites" that were there, there were very few people who wanted to engage in thoughtful discussion (maybe 2). Most wanted to insult, spew lies and hate, and to threaten and become physical. An interesting "Peace" protest to say the least.

I was prepared to join the Israeli Foreign Legion some years ago, but, it turned out it wasn't necessary.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

P- there were very few people who wanted to engage in thoughtful discussion (maybe 2). Most wanted to insult, spew lies and hate, and to threaten and become physical. An interesting "Peace" protest to say the least.

Including you. You did not go there for peace you went to instigate.

As you said earlier
A friend and I just crashed an anti-Israel protest in downtown Sacramento. We bought two Iranian flags, one to burn at the protest, and, my protest sign said "Nuke Iran." I walked into the middle section were the Muslims were, and, guess what, it got quasi-violent--
Man, love these terrorist supporters.


So you think the protesters support Hezbollah killing civilians?

BTW- All religions are peaceful and all religions have been used as an excuse for horrible atrocities including Christianity.

11:33 AM  
Blogger P said...

Anon. I went with an inflammatory sign yes, but, I wanted to see how they would react to that being adherents to the religion of peace. I used to work with a Muslim guy a long time and one day we had an argument about something. He said he was going to "gouge my eyes out with a fork!" in the heat of it. It was insane. The guy lost control just like the Muslims I saw at the protest.

And, yes, the protestors fully stood by Hezbollah and said they were not terrorists. It was all Israel's fault. (in their words).

11:50 AM  
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