Monday, July 24, 2006

Bush White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move

"Everything that you're discussing is information you're not supposed to have," barked Pentecostal minister Robert G. Upton when asked about the off-the-record briefing his delegation received on March 25. Details of that meeting appear in a confidential memo signed by Upton and obtained by the Voice.

The e-mailed meeting summary reveals NSC Near East and North African Affairs director Elliott Abrams sitting down with the Apostolic Congress and massaging their theological concerns. Claiming to be "the Christian Voice in the Nation's Capital," the members vociferously oppose the idea of a Palestinian state. They fear an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza might enable just that, and they object on the grounds that all of Old Testament Israel belongs to the Jews. Until Israel is intact and Solomon's temple rebuilt, they believe, Christ won't come back to earth.

Three weeks after the confab, President George W. Bush reversed long-standing U.S. policy, endorsing Israeli sovereignty over parts of the West Bank in exchange for Israel's disengagement from the Gaza Strip.

Tens of millions of American Christian Zionists support Israeli expansionism because they believe it will bring Armageddon and the return of Jesus.
All want to maintain a U.S.-Israel monopoly on nuclear weapons in the Middle East. There is ample evidence that to maintain this monopoly, the U.S. and Israel plan a dangerous war against Iran, and probably its ally Syria, that could kill millions of Muslims, Arabs, Israelis and even Americans.
The rhetoric between Iran's leader Ahmadineajad and US President George Bush -- both of whom seem to think "God Chose ME to Start Armageddon" -- keeps ratcheting up, even as the Israelis make absurd predictions that Iran could produce nuclear weapons within months. Bush needs a war to distract attention from the disasterous war in Iraq and his many scandals.

Other special interest groups have managed to skew U.S. foreign policy in directions they favored, but no lobby has managed to divert U.S. foreign policy as far from what the American national interest would otherwise suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that U.S. and Israeli interests are essentially identical."

The Bush administration is insane. If the American people do not decapitate it by demanding Bush’s impeachment, the Bush administration will bring about Armageddon. This may please some Christian evangelicals conned by Rapture predictions, but World War III will please no one else.

Analysis-Does the President believe that a nuclear war in the mid east (Iran) will bring Christ back? There are many who believe it and are excited about it. There is even the top ten signs. Number one is Iran's nuclear program.

The scary thing is this end of the world talk is making it's way to MSM which is giving it legitimacy. I have heard on CNN Evangelicals are excited at the prospect of a wider war with Iran.
Is the battle in the Middle East a sign of Armageddon? An eye-opening look at what some evangelicals say the conflict means. Tune in at 8 p.m. ET. CNN

What is wrong with these people. YOU can not purposefully bring about the second coming.

Note- Israel needs to be helped and protected as a trusted ally but you even tell a friend when they have stepped over the line.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

On Meet the Press, Tim Russert points out a stunning press release from the White House Communications Office. The release, titled Setting The Record Straight, endorses an LA Times Op-Ed that calls for Israel to attack Syria:

"It’s time to let the Israelis take off the gloves…. Israel needs to hit the [Syrian] Assad regime. Hard."

It’s difficult to not interpret this as the White Communications Office officially endorsing an Israeli attack on Syria.

1:45 PM  
Blogger HD said...

Me thinks we have lunatics running our country, Israel, and essentially most countries these days. I always thought that Bush Jr. was the anti-Christ, and said so early on, but nobody believes me. Anyway, we definitely need to impeach the sucker, before he can do anymore harm.

4:40 PM  
Blogger Russ said...

HD not the Anti Chist maybe a false prophet. ( I am not serious)

LN-Here is your sermon

Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Jesus did not endorse political candidates, protest government policy, run for office, or advocate political force. Jesus does not force anyone to do anything. We all have free choice to make our own decisions. The battle of evangelism will not be won from public office or the courtroom, but with the true word of God, scripture.

5:39 PM  
Blogger LNaranjoiv said...

You stated:

Jesus did not endorse political candidates, protest government policy, run for office, or advocate political force. Jesus does not force anyone to do anything. We all have free choice to make our own decisions. The battle of evangelism will not be won from public office or the courtroom, but with the true word of God, scripture.

Was that in a scripture??
Evangelism?? Pfffffffffftttt.....

Somewhere I believe, it's said about an eye for eye justice too.....or are you one to quote bible thumping as it suits you??
So far, seems like the latter.

6:14 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

Lemme intersperse some religious winger speak...

The F.U.B.A.R. Guide to Speaking Religiously (in right-wing circles):

"Bless your heart" --- All-purpose phrase that can mean many things, most of them bad. Especially handy when speaking to or about a nonbeliever. When the nonbeliever identifies him- or herself as a nonbeliever, you say, "Bless your heart." Which means, "Bless your heart, because you are going to hell."

"I'll pray for you" --- "You are going to Hell."

"Hate the sin, not the sinner" --- This is what you say about a non-Christian person you disapprove of. ... It's nice, because it lets you get out your hate but still sound Christian. What it means is: "I hate the sin, and the sinner."

Family values --- As in, "I believe in family values." This can mean a variety of things. For example:

"I don't like to pay taxes for government services."
"I'm afraid of homosexuals."
"I'm afraid of black people."
"I'm afraid of foreigners."
"I believe Rush just had a bad-back problem."
"I think the fifties was the best time in U.S. history."
"I'm white."

Evolution --- Absurd theory that holds that the earth is over [six] four thousand years old.

"God bless America" --- "My political speech is over."

---From the sinfully funny FUBAR by Sam Seder and Stephen Sherrill. Bless their hearts.

It just popped in my mind this from about 3 years ago at the rightie oriented church I used to go to. The church FTE secretary put in the Sunday bulletin under prayer requests...

"Pray for the salvation of the Dalai Lhama"...(as in, he is going to Hell)
I knew it was about time to find another church...

7:05 AM  
Blogger Russ said...

LN I knew you would like that.

The last part is not scripture and I do not believe (I said I was not serious) Bush is a false prophet although those that seriously think they can bring Christ back should give it some thought.

7:09 AM  
Blogger Russ said...

PS- that is good stuff, funny and true.

I think people that take the Bible literally word for word run into problems. A bigger problem comes when some use it as a day by day planner.

7:17 AM  
Blogger Russ said...

I still want to know

Does the President believe that a nuclear war in the mid east (Iran) will bring Christ back?

That Bush would attack so many vital systems on so many fronts from foreign policy to the environment may seem confusing from the point of view of realpolitik but becomes transparent in terms of the apocalyptic worldview to which he subscribes. All systems are supposed to go down so the Messiah can come and Bush, seemingly, has taken on the role of the one who brings this to pass.

S.R. Shearer of Antipas Ministries writes, "Most of the leaders of the Promise Keepers embrace a doctrine of 'end time' (eschatology), known as 'dominionim.' Dominionism pictures the seizure of earthly (temporal) power by the 'people of God' as the only means through which the world can be rescued.... It is the eschatology that Bush has imbibed; an eschatology through which he has gradually (and easily) come to see himself as an agent of God who has been called by him to 'restore the earth to God's control', a 'chosen vessel', so to speak, to bring in the Restoration of All Thingss." Shearer calls this delusion, "Messianic leadership"-- that is to say usurping the role usually ascribed to the Messiah.

In Bush at War Bob Woodward writes, "Most presidents have high hopes. Some have grandiose visions of what they will achieve, and he was firmly in that camp."

"To answer these attacks and rid the world of evil," says Bush. And again, "We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of this great nation." Grandiose visions. Woodward comments, "The president was casting his mission and that of the country in the grand vision of Gods Master Plan."

In dominionism we can see the theological source of Bush's monomania. Not to be distracted by the fact that he lost the popular election by a half a million votes, that the Joint Chief of Staff at the Pentagon were so concerned about his plans to invade Iraq that they leaked their unanimous objection, that he has systematically alienated much of the world, that roughly seventy percent of Americans remain unconvinced of the imminent threat of Saddam Hussein and the same percentage object to war if there will be significant American casualties--none of this is in the least relevant. He believes his mandate toward action is from God.

As humans we live within stories. Some stories, like apocalypse are thousands of years old. The scriptured text that informs Bush understanding of and enactment of the End of Days (Revelations 19) depicts Christ returning as the Heavenly Avenger. Revelations is the only New Testament book that justifies violence of any kind, and this it takes to the limit: Christ himself the agent of mass murder.

8:18 AM  
Blogger HD said...

Russ Plag....Bush probably isn't the Anti-Christ, or even a false prophet, ... more on target would be an ignorant pawn.

11:06 AM  
Blogger P said...

Russ, which parts shouldn't be taken word for word?

2:06 PM  
Blogger Russ said...

P-Russ, which parts shouldn't be taken word for word?

Should we stone to death children who misbehave?
Should we stone to death people who work on Sunday?
I believe the earth is over 4 billion years old not 5 or 6 thousand years as the Bible states. You do not have to deny facts of science to have faith in God. The Bible is the guide.

I found this interesting-
There are all kinds of Christian Bibles and contrary to the popular belief of those who have not taken the time to compare translations, there are often great variations between the translations--even in major doctrine. There are some Bibles which contain 66 books, some contain 80, and some contain even more. There are Bibles written from an Arminian point of view and some written from a Calvinistic point of view. There are Bibles that contain the doctrine of Hell and Everlasting Punishment and there are many Bibles which don't. (Surprised by this? (snip)

There are revisions of revisions of revisions. For example, the NASB Updated is a an update of the NASB which is a revision of the American Standard Version which is a revision of the American Standard which is the American Version of the Revised Version which is a revision of the King James Bible which went through several changes itself over its 350 year history. Very few people know that the original King James Bible contained the Apocryphal writings, an almanac, a list of Saints Holy days, and enough spelling mistakes to choke a horse. In the first year the King James "Authorized Version" was printed, there was one printing which read "he said" and another which read "she said" in Ruth 3:15. One edition of the 1611 KJV read ""Then cometh Judas" in Matthew 26:36 which should have been "Then cometh Jesus." Later editions of the King James Bible would contain embarrassing misprints like omitting the word "not" from the seventh of the ten commandments. This edition came to be known as the "Wicked Bible."
To make matters worse, in a 1639 edition, they reversed themselves in Revelation 20:13 putting "the grave" in the text and putting "Hell" in the margins. Clearly the translators, editors and printers of the original so-called "inerrant" Bible has been riddled with errors since its very first printing. And that is quite understandable considering the fact the King James gave the translators 15 rules by which they had to abide which enslaved the translators to the traditions of the Anglican Church and NOT to sound unbiased translating.

2:48 PM  
Blogger DBC said...

Alright new RC. We agree no literl translation. Maybe answer some of these.

For The KJV Bible to be the literal word of God, you believe that God spoke to Moses in Elizabethan English, that's what literal means: exactly, word for word, what someone said.

Where in the bible, if anywhere, Does the Bible say it is the Word of God?

Why did God sacrifice Himself to Himself so that He could correct a mistake He made Himself?

How does the crucifixion count as an appropriate sacrifice? Jesus spent a few hours, maybe a day, in agonizing pain; but it was no greater pain than millions of others have suffered. If Jesus really is God, then He knew exactly what was happening, and exactly how long it would last. When it was done, He supposedly ascended to heaven and became the all-powerful ruler of the universe. This is infinitely greater compensation than even the faithful will receive, and infinitely less torture that the damned will receive.

Please reconcile these two statements: "Without evil, there can be no good", "God is all-good."

Please reconcile these two statements: "With God, nothing is impossible", "You can't be saved unless you accept Jesus as your savior."

3:05 PM  
Blogger P said...

Russ. Of course. The Bible has gone through many translations from the original Aramaic and Hebrew languages. The ONE theme that is inherent throughout though is that of the coming of, the appearance of, and the death of Jesus the Christ who was to be and is the redemption and salvation of all mankind. All things from the OT to the NT point to this.
I'm not sure who takes your "word for word" quotes from the bible on the subject of "stonings" literally anymore. No one should. That was part of the Old Covenant, pre-Christ. Post-Christ there is a "New Covenant." It does not include stoning people for their miscomings. The New Covenant is about forgiveness and redemption from sin which allows man to relate with God on a personal level. I think most of us know the theology (some here may not). Adam was the first man. He sinned, thus broke the connection with God. All men from then on were born into his disconnection with God. BUT, this was part of God's plan. God wanted to show man the depth of His mercy, in that, He wanted to show them what it was like without Him, and then, to give them a chance to redeem themselves to Him. Enter Jesus, the "Second" man. Perfect in all respects, he was Man, and God (by way of God's Spirit), in the flesh. Meant to be our redemption, and, to put man where God always wanted him, that is, in a relationship with Himself. When Jesus came to Earth did His ministry, then was killed, this accomplished God's goal or plan. Jesus became the perfect sacrifice for man's sins, thus, everyone who believes in Him (there's more on that of course), is reconnected with God on a personal level. Redeemed from sin, brought back into God's graces.

Your "people shouldn't take the Bible word for word" has some err in it. We can learn from the Bible as to how we should live our lives on a daily basis, yet, there is also an overall theme throughout the bible (OT and NT) no matter how many books a translation has in it. That theme is the redemption of man through Jesus Christ. The OT is separate from the NT. The OT laws were the old order relevant to those who lived in those times. The NT with the coming of Jesus changed those laws. People aren't stoned for adultery anymore, they are forgiven etc. This is basic theology. Theology 101 if you will.

3:19 PM  
Blogger LNaranjoiv said...

Not a religious blog, huh?

Pffffffttttttt....yea right.

5:02 PM  
Blogger Prodigal Son said...

LN,I think you should exercise your perogatives as having time in grade over some of the usurpers of the right wing blogspot mantle in the fiefdom of Placer County.

And as a leadoff off in the counter-revolution, a short piece of what Attila the Hun thought of religion back when there was only one brand of Christianity...

5:50 PM  
Blogger DBC said...

P- Is the earth young or old?

Russ- I do not think Bush is trying to make the second coming happen. I think he is just incompetent and lets the neo-cons & Israel have a free hand. He is not a Christian. All talk.

9:24 PM  
Blogger DBC said...

Condi will get a cease fire when Israel tells her they are done. Condi was incompetent as National Security Advisor SO why would she be anything else now. This is so sad our country is crumbling and I see no help from Dem's or independents.

The conservatives, who include Newt Gingrich, Richard Perle and leading current and former members of the Pentagon and National Security Council, have urged the president to transfer Miss Rice out of the State Department and to an advisory role. They said Miss Rice, stemming from her lack of understanding of the Middle East, has misled the president on Iran and the Arab-Israeli conflict.

"The president has yet to understand that people make policy and not the other way around," a senior national security policy analyst said. "Unlike [former Secretary of State Colin] Powell, Condi is loyal to the president. She is just incompetent on most foreign policy issues."

9:32 PM  
Blogger P said...

dbc. I would say the earth very well could be "old." Remember in Genesis where it says, "the earth was formless and empty (or void), and darkness was over the surface of the deep." Was there an earth that was destroyed prior to this? Who knows? No one will know all of the answers until it's over and we are ALlowed to know what really happened. In the end, only one thing matters, which is the redemption of man by Jesus's death.

10:22 PM  
Blogger Russ said...

I beleive the earth is old. Rather than debate theology I would rather debate how so called Christians took over the country, and not for the better.

In the early 90s, there was a movement within the Republican Party which displaced many traditional members, and replaced them with younger people. At first, those who had been displaced interpreted this as a natural cycle of events, and welcomed the dedication and energy the new members brought with them.

Gradually, however, it became obvious to those who had been 'displaced' that they had in fact been dumped, kicked out of their own Party, and that there was actually something very disturbing about the agenda of the new members, and their involvement with the Religious Right.

Robin stands publicly against this mentality and has endured the consequences of hostile mail, threatening phone calls and the abuse of members of his family by “Bible-quoting true believers.” Bill Moyers said of Robin’s book, “This is not a book for narrow sectarian minds; read it and you will want to change the world.” My words on its cover are these: “In this book a powerful and authentic voice from America’s heartland holds up a mirror to the Bush Administration and its religious allies. The result is a vision of Orwellian proportions in which values are inverted so
that violence, hatred, bigotry and war become the gifts of “the Prince of Peace.’

If Jesus of Nazareth was anything, he was an extraordinary friend of the down- trodden, definitely a Liberal, whose advocacy on their behalf so infuriated the ultra-Conservative religious and political leaders of his day that they had him killed to prevent the public from hearing the very liberal teaching that you will see quoted abundantly in Jesus' own words

4:26 PM  
Blogger HD said...

All things go in cycles, the weather and even politics goes in cycles. The Republican led GOP has squandered their chance. The became arrogant, and not interested in the welfare of average citizen...the very population they are supposed to be there to represent. November may not bring a total dumping of Republicans, but you can bet there will be change in the wind come this November.

Tax breaks for the rich has back-fired. The theory being that wealthy people/companies would re-invest the money gained into jobs, and the economy, but instead they shipped the jobs out of the country.

This administration took what was good vibes from other countries and erased world wide co-operation, took our in the black national budget and bank-rupted it.

By the way, I was joking when I made the reference to Bush being the anti Christ. While he could be his twin, Bush is nothing more than an arrogant little boy, who desperately needs a smacking.

5:22 PM  
Blogger LNaranjoiv said...

HD bemoans about tax breaks for the rich....kinda like the same idiots who bemoan about it too.

Funny....those very people who're complaining about tax breaks, are.....gasp.....RICH themselves!!

Gee, I'm sure they're REALLY moaning about THEIR tax breaks....

Why are these same people moaning about the reduction/elimination of the Inheritance tax???? Wouldn't THAT tax break help out the.....gaps.....Little guys?!?!?!

Naw......that be too realistic and understandable.

9:43 AM  
Blogger Russ said...

LNWhy are these same people moaning about the reduction/elimination of the Inheritance tax???? Wouldn't THAT tax break help out the.....gaps.....Little guys?!?!?!

The elimination of the inheritance tax would help out all the "little guys" who inherit millions just because they had the foresight to be born to wealthy parents.

The first few million are exempt.

so you supported these tax cuts. You got nothing because you were had, but you helped 52,000 rich people get $469,200 richer and you helped 549 Americans get $10,418,000 richer.

You know the little guys

"Bush is marketing a tax policy that redistributes money upward. Earn money as a worker, and you are taxed; make money in the stock market, and you will be taxed less; accumulate enough money, and when you die, your estate will not be taxed at all."

3:28 PM  
Blogger HD said...

Hey LN, I'm a far cry from rich ... I made the mistake of selling my house in Woodland in 2000, in hopes of moving closer to work. The only problem is there was nothing I could afford near m y work. I now have a new mortgage and won't be able to retire until it is paid off....some 8-10 years from now.

What I said about tax breaks for the wealthy, I still stand by...they are not, for the most part, re-ivesting their gains in job creations, as is the justification for their major tax breaks to begin with.

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